114925-stephan-frost-leaving-carbine
Content ---- ---- ---- ---- link? AT least something to look forward too if it's the truth :d | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- thank you :) | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Stop confusing the games troubles with people leaving. This is NOT unusual for any MMO. A launched MMO needs far fewer people than one in development, even when it is having troubles, and this is a big part of how the industry works. People who like making games and people who like running games are often two different kinds of people, so the people who like making games tend to go and keep doing that. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- You're right that this isn't unusual for an MMO or any retail game with huge budgets, but it still makes people wonder and worry considering that people are leaving the team in rapid succession. If it was just someone leaving in between long intervals, than I wouldn't see it as an issue, but the fact that three members have left in such a short timeframe rubs me the wrong way, and also blasts the door open for wack job conspiriacy theorists and will add more fire to the "The game is dead" flames, using news like this an their excuse. So it's still something to be concern about, regardless. | |} ---- I want to hear them xD | |} ---- My theory is he got overloaded with too much banter. | |} ---- ---- But a slow drip every so often isn't how this happens, that's what I'm saying. These 4 are just the more public devs, there's probably dozens of devs who didn't have forum accounts or were known to players in general who have left in the last 6 months. Their work is complete, and they add this job to their resume, and move on to a bigger job with a better paycheck (if they're fortunate). That's exactly what Frost says is happening here, and if people like him as much as they say they do, they should have ZERO reason to doubt him. I'm pointing this out because people shouldn't be concerned, not so they can find an excuse to be concerned anyway. | |} ---- ---- ---- If they do that we riot! | |} ---- ---- ---- Hey Rex! Haven't seen you on GD for a while. And goodbye Frost. Hope your new gig works out. I know how stepping up feels. | |} ---- Games like this suffer from people screaming "the game is dead" all the time, especially when they don't get what they want. The Everquest series has been dumbed down a ton since it's initial release and the fans were mixed between "we love it" and "you're killing the game." Same thing is said every time Blizzard releases employees as well and their games are still kicking. I'm not concerned about Wildstar because they are always trying to improve things and as much as Frost should feel great about the community missing him and thinking the game will die with him gone, it is just simply not the case that his departure will be a catalyst so any of the "game is dead" flames should just simply be ignored. ESO has more bugs and a lack of endgame so if you're thinking that will be your last thread of hope, you're mistaken. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Basically this. May add this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEAUIiD4DHw Anyway, best wishes to Mr Frost for the future! | |} ---- Serious truth spoken here. The games industry is a rough business, and more often than not doesn't pay as well as it should for the number of hours people put in. You've seen the news about how devs at several companies work "crunch" for months at a time with 12+ hour days and 60+ hour weeks. Even when it's something you have all your love and passion in, it can wear you down and take a serious toll on your health and family - which are far more important things in life. We may have lost one of our iconic community faces, but I do hope we haven't lost Frost's voice. Carbine, please hire Frost on contract when you need voiceover work done. He's damn good at it and I don't think anyone could replace him to our liking. | |} ---- ---- It's not really that. More like with a change of command, the whole game could change direction. New faces in the board room, new leader, etc. I'm not about to jump ship as I quite enjoy the game and I'm happy with a long list of things I still want to do, but I can still worry that with new leadership will come a new direction of game design, possibly into a direction I'd rather avoid. | |} ---- ---- At least you're giving it a shot. Plus, a new direction could be a good thing, not so much a bad thing. Please clarify because I didn't catch on to anything that I feel I should be concerned about with how he was acting. | |} ---- Sure but that's possible even if the leadership doesn't change. I remember before release when I first started looking at the game how it would cater to the hardcore!!! and be more like the 'old school' MMO's... Yet here we are with Drop 3 looking at a change in direction. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- To be fair, a vast majority of people in the gaming industry are introverts. He may have simply been uncomfortable being in front of a camera. Tho it's likely he knew what was coming up at the end, too. Combine the two, and I can imagine he probably had a bottle of Patron in his desk for afterwards. | |} ---- I feel sorry for the guy, I feel like I should buy him a beer. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Rumor has it Carbine's pay is definitely not something to write home about. Can't be that hard to get a better deal for someone as awesomesauce as Frost!!! He lost weight and looked stressed in the last few weeks. I hope the new job gives him some well deserved peace of mind. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- The folks at CS really don't get paid that much. You can see some representative salaries on their Glassdoor profile. Frost even said he got an offer he couldn't refuse, which usually means more pay and more responsibility (unless it was a Godfather-style "offer you can't refuse"). | |} ---- ---- Game is doing much better now. Theyve kind of disappeared from the media (much like Wildstar) but from what ive heard many of the bugs are squashed and theyre doing really well with new content. The thing is, all this stuff going on at Carbine sounds like the same old song ive heard many times before. Layoffs are one thing and even normal after a game releases, but when you got your highest paid team leaders leaving it casts this shadow of gloom over the studio. Almost like theyre jumping ship before things take a dive or maybe the suits are stepping in and twisting their arm to make more money (like F2P). I think Zenimax had some layoffs going as well but iirc its just been the usual post-release stuff and the lead designers havent left yet. If Wildstar goes F2P then im pretty much only left with ESO (fun when it works as it should), WoW (Back to the Future with Orcs? No), or FFXIV (... meh). | |} ---- ---- a couple of things I will point in counter point to this type of thinking. 1) Most people who have voiced "concerns" over the direction of the game have been doing so since its release. Now bear with me for a second. If Frost is a producer of the game, and responsible for the direction the game was going in (in some form or another.) then people have been concerned with Frost's leadership of the game, and its lack of bugfixes, class balance, rng, etc since the game has been released. How is him leaving necessarily a bad thing? How do you know that part of the issue wasn't Frost? You don't. Which leads me to my second point. 2) Frost is a cult of personality- Frost has been widely visible throughout the beta, headstart, and launch marketing of this game. This invariably leads to a group of people that identify with his personality strongly. It doesn't make him indispensable. Honestly, it doesn't make him even vital. Don't get me wrong, in no way am I trying to detract from the immense amount of work that he has potentially done in this game, nor the positive impact he has on wildstar at least in the public relations department. What I am saying, is that an emotional response to a favored personality leaving a game is not the same as the game sinking. 3) Evidence vs Emotion- I think one of the key points is mike sitting there with a novels worth of patch notes, in which he looks like he desperately wants to read them verbatim to all of us. Look, the game has been out for three months. This was the patch that they are betting a lot on. Its been the sole focus of their entire staff, and its smooth integration into this game is their top priority. Frost leaving provokes an emotional response (Oh god, frost is leaving, rats deserting a sinking ship. The sky is falling.) Hell, I wont lie. It even crossed my mind because I never really though Frost would leave. But he did. And whatever his reasons are, they are his. And I honestly don't care. Best of luck to him, but Im more interested in this game. Drop 3-4 is your main concern people. Drops 1 and 2 were learning experiences for Carbine. Once they recognized the issue and realized the severity they have put everything they have into this drop. Its their chance to win back consumer confidence in their product, and I think they know that. I think that's why Mike looks stressed, and why the dev team is working like maniacal little slaves. (Im assuming here, but I like to try and err on the side of positivity.) The bottom line is that Frost leaving Carbine is a side note. People leave in this business like two dollar hook...er... leaves fall off of trees. Don't let your emotions drag you for a ride that isn't necessary. I like Frost too. He was an funny, personable, decent guy with a quirky sense of humor. Ill miss that. But I have no doubt that if he got offered a better job he would take it in a heartbeat. I wouldn't read into that any further at this time. Now if drop 3-4 fails miserably.... Then I would read into it. | |} ---- ---- ---- QFT | |} ---- I've played the game since the most recent patch. It's still pretty much the same. Main difference is guild changes and now you can dye your armor. I'm an MMO hopper; I test these things. | |} ---- ---- :D | |} ---- This. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- I respect your opinion and agree with you about the need for fewer staff but I view this as not so positive. My experience with is that Widlstar is following the same pattern of WAR and SWTOR. Anyway-I'm the kind of person who will go down with the ship-I think I'm one of a few handful that are still on Pago. I hope things turn around. I love the game. | |} ---- ----